Welcome back to a new episode of My Career in Data – a DATAVERSITY Talks podcast where we sit down with professionals to discuss how they have built their careers around data.
This week we speak with Doug Kimball, the the Chief Marketing Officer at Ontotext, about how he moved from being a counselor to a career in data and the value of mentorship.
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Connect with Doug on LinkedIn.
Full transcript:
00:04
(Intro Start) Hello, and welcome to My Career in Data: a podcast where we discuss with industry leaders and experts how they have built their careers. I’m your host, Shannon Kempe, and today we’re talking to Doug Kimball at Ontotext. (Intro End)
00:23
(Break Start) With a robust catalog of courses offered on-demand and industry-leading, live online sessions throughout the year, the DATAVERSITY Training Center is your LaunchPad for career success. Browse the complete catalog at training dot DATAVERSITY dot net, and use code “DVTALKS” for 20% off your purchase. (Break End)
SHANNON: Hello, and welcome! My name is Shannon Kempe, and I’m the Chief Digital Officer at DATAVERSITY, and this is My Career in Data, a DATAVERSITY Talks podcast dedicated to learning from those who have careers in Data Management to understand how they got there and to be talking with people who helped make those careers a little bit easier. To keep up-to-date in the latest in Data Management Education, go to DATAVERSITY dot net forward slash subscribe. Today we are joined by Doug Kimball, the Chief Marketing Officer at Ontotext, and normally this is where a podcast host would read a short bio of the guests but in this podcast, your bio is what we’re here to talk about. Doug, hello and welcome!
DOUG: Hi, Shannon, I’m excited to be here. It’s it’s I like to flip with the other twist here and starting off with all about me, because we’re gonna talk all about me. No, I’m kidding! So yeah, I’m excited this is–I think I love what you guys are doing. This is an outstanding effort.
SHANNON: Thank you so much. We are here to talk about you, and what and how you got to where you are. So, so let’s start with that. So you’re the chief marketing officer at onto tags. So what is Ontotext?
DOUG: We are a Knowledge Graph company, that’s probably the shortest version of the answer. If you look at the differences between like a relational database like access and knowledge graph, it’s about as different as your brain is to a computer chip. You can do knowledge graphs, create relationships, understand data better; help drive analytics. There’s a ton of things knowledge graphs do if you’ve never seen them before, but if you use Google or if you use IMDb or Uber or things like that, you’ve used a knowledge graph. So that’s what we do.
SHANNON: Oh, I love that description. I haven’t heard that before. And that’s a very,
02:24
(continued) very good description, very understandable description,
02:28
DOUG:Trying to make it spin.
02:30
SHANNON: Well, let’s talk about it. So you’re the CMO. So what is it you that you do at Ontoext?
02:37
DOUG: If I summed it up? There’s two ways I sum it up: my key–my and the team’s key focus is on two main things: Market awareness, you know, who is Ontotext, and what do we do? Why do we do it? And then lead–demand generation lead generation, so how do we then say, “Okay, cool. I want to go buy something from onset text, because I need their data management and Knowledge Graph services.” So big buckets is what we as a marketing team focus on my overall arching, driving pillars. But my big girl–my big job really is strategy and vision, so bringing in the years of experience, I haven’t saying,”Let’s try this, let’s look at it this way. Let’s try these plans. Let’s try these programs, use channels, different ways of doing things,” and just provide that vision to say, “Here’s the–what we’re trying to go after. Here’s what we’re trying to close from a business standpoint, who’s–here’s what we want to make people aware,” and then laying out the plan. I’ve got a great team that I work with, so that makes my job a lot easier.
SHANNON: Oh, that’s amazing. So let’s talk about that in that experience. So let’s back it up quite a bit here. And so Doug, you know, when you were very young, in what in the U.S. we call elementary School, was this the dream? You’re gonna grow up to be a CMO at a knowledge graph company?
DOUG: Absolutely. I mean, I’ve already done it. No, I’m kidding. If I listened to what my mom told me, I wanted to be an astronaut.
04:03
(continued) So I–I missed something in this whole process, going from astronaut to CMO, but
04:10
(continued) my earliest recollections of being an astronaut, probably because–I’m sorry, I’m old–not long after the moon landing, actually I was alive for the Moon landing. So I think those little things are on my mind, and we’re watching the TV. You know as I grew up, I always found I was very great at talking to people, and people wanted to talk to me and share and tell their stories, and here’s my challenges, and my problems, so ended up going into psychology becoming a counselor. Again, counselor–CMO. We’ll come back to that.
SHANNON: It’s fascinating. So, So you, you got your degree in counseling.
DOUG: Yeah, I was a professional counselor for seven years. I did personal counseling, academic counseling. My biggest focus was academic but also do career counseling part-time. So it not only was it
05:00
(continued) a good evolution from being a psychology major, but it was also it fit me. In other words, I like I said, people like to come to me and not just, “Hey, Doug, I’m having a bad day,” but, “I’m just not sure what to do.” And I’m a natural problem-solver, but also try to
05:16
(continued) extract from them, so let’s talk about what’s really going on before we get to the problem-solving.
05:22
SHANNON: Tell me a little bit about academic counseling. What is that?
DOUG: So I had the fortune to work with a basically called a startup was, it was it was a part of university, an athletic Study Center. So it was a place where the student athletes could go to get everything from mentoring, guidance, time management, proofreading; we did not do their work, I completed 100% never did their work, but we helped them to do their work. In other words, sometimes they didn’t come in with the best understanding of how to use an education system or how to put a paper together or how to, you know, and they got tutoring. So it was really about an enablement, which, again, I keep finding as his key theme of things I’ve done over my last several years, it was about enablement and support.
06:03
(continued) And we grew this academic athletic study center from a very small organization to something that the NCAA schools actually started reaching out to us and recognizing as an interest, so we got run into things. It was, it was a great period of my life, I learned I learned a ton about project management, about education, about teaching and support, so–
06:24
SHANNON: Wow, that’s very cool. Yeah, sure there’s a lot of people who would be very envious of that experience.
06:33
DOUG: Yeah, diverse people, diverse populations, you know, you go from people who just take, it’s gonna take a student athlete who was number one in their school, in their state, in their region, maybe. And they come into the university being the number one person at XYZ, and now with a bunch of number ones.
06:52
(continued) It’s a mindset change. And then also, I think, it really helped me to understand the need for communication and collaboration even further, because you had to take this person who they’re–they were great.
07:05
(continued) But how do you help them understand they’re great, like everybody else? Is that in the same level? And how do you turn that greatness into action that gets seen, observed, and used?
07:15
SHANNON: That’s amazing. What a rewarding experience.
DOUG: It was fun. It was fun.
SHANNON: So then tell me, so you. So what was the transition from counseling?
07:28
DOUG:I had an opportunity to go work for the Nielsen Company. The–one of my best my best friend work there. It’s usually because he knew I was doing a lot with technology, I was starting my computer lab, and I was doing my version of technology. It’s not you know, I’m not a sequel–a programmer. But I had got to the point with what I had done with both counseling and career counseling, I’d done kind of, I checked all the boxes. This is cool. This is fun. But I felt like there was something more out there. So
07:56
(continued) I interviewed for a sales job. Horrible. I did a horrible interview. That’s why I think didn’t get into sales right away.
08:04
(continued) But there’s something about the guy–something I said the guy really liked, and he passed me on to a consulting VP there who brought me in for a second interview. I did something right there.
08:18
(continued) And so I made the switch–the switch from education to business. And I remember the second week, I’m flying back from a training conference, looking out the window going, “A planogram and ban–brand placement versus cross placement…” But like, what have I done? It’s just–
08:34
(continued) but it worked out okay.
08:37
SHANNON: Yeah, yeah? So, so tell me a little bit about that job.
DOUG: Yeah. So originally, they tried to turn me into a programmer, because I was a big a VBA was huge, and we did a lot of customized work for our clients. And so they took me through training, and they had guys sit with me, and I just–I could write a real basic set of code and just sort of understand it. But I didn’t, it just wasn’t me. And–but they really liked my attitude, everything. So one day, my boss said, “Hey, I got a project management job for you at one of our largest clients, a manufacturer in Chicago, and you need to go and kind of take over this project, and run it.” Okay, cool. And ya know. They were in good shape there. They like us, blah, blah, blah. Okay, cool. So I walk in, I sit down in the guy’s office, say, “Hi, I’m Doug. I’m here to take over this project of X,Y, and Z.” He says, “I don’t know who you are. I don’t care who you are. I want you in the company out of my building by tomorrow and not to come back.” So good, friendly conversation. Yeah, I’ve been–I’ve been with Nielsen at that point. Maybe
09:36
(continued) five months. So there’s a bit of like the yellow deer in the headlights, holy crap.
09:43
(continued) I completely B.S. my way through the next 10 minutes of the conversation saying basically, you know “I’m here to succeed. I’m here to make a difference for the code for this company. I’m here to you know, you can kick me out. I’ll be back the next day, and the next day, the next day.” Why didn’t use that mindset during my sales interview. I don’t know why.
10:00
(continued) But I–I mean on the outside, mister calm, cool, and collected, sweet, inside I’m (squeak)
10:08
(continued) and he looked at me for what for like an hour and eventually said, “Okay, you got one chance don’t eff it up,”
10:14
(continued) so I scurried out there. And because I had a great team, I just decide to make it happen. I, I helped to drive that program we delivered to success for both the companies.I became the subject matter expert for for the company for Nielsen; I helped go out and sell it and product Mark marketed over the next year or so, because I had brought it to us, I was the guy who knew at all about that particular thing. Because of that success, the company who built the tool for us brought me in as a director of operations, because I knew there was an expanding web company, and so I went from Nielsen to this, this web company to be the Director of Operations and take over a team of I think I had 28 people. When I joined there abouts, and you’ve got to manage all that. And so just–you got an interesting hopscotch of opportunities.
11:04
(continued) From counseling to business going, sorry, go ahead.
SHANNON: No, I love that story. That is a story of determination. That is a story of believing in yourself. And, and really taking it forward.
DOUG: So there wasn’t there was some fake it till you make it. But yeah, I had a good friend, when I joined the company. He said,”You know, this is a new world for you. But you got the ability to make it successful. You just have to take it.” Okay.
SHANNON: Nice. Very cool. So okay, so so then, so, so you’re now you’re with this new company? Yeah. So, so tell me what you’re doing there. And what–what’s next?
DOUG: So yeah, I did it’s a bit of a hopscotch from there. So I ran, I was the–basically, you know, there was, there was, there was a three leader–I was one of the three leaders of the company, working directly with the founder, and the founder, and a seasoned CEO, and myself are kind of the triumvirate
11:56
(continued) helped to continue to, to put processes in place, I helped run a project management manual, I introduced the concept of product marketing to them–
12:05
(continued) channel sales development, a lot of just a while I was–I was a salesperson, I was an operations leader, I was a team manager, restructure the team reporting structure; brought some have a little bit of a little bit of corporate mindset I had into what was very much typical, that boom type of stuff, you know, like working 24 hours for one day, and then being gone for 18 or sleep–just put some structure around that. We got–we had a merger and acquisition that I still came out with a decent side of–no money, but at least I was still in a good position. I wasn’t like, oh.
12:36
(continued) But around that time, the guy, one of the leaders I’d worked with at the Nielsen Company before, was now working for another, a new company based in–I think it was Jersey, and had been talking to me for a while, talking to me for a while and trying to recruit me. And long story short, went to work for him for another job for a
12:59
(continued) year and a half-ish. Yeah.
13:01
(continued) So. And then went back to the Nielsen Company, because like, the job changed, and they opened up an opportunity to run the consulting division for, I think it was the Midwest? So yeah.
13:13
(continued) that’s the reason my career has been a very puzzling, convoluted path that I’ve been very fortunate in I but, you know, if I looked at, you know, DATAVERSITY there, it started to sink in on me probably halfway through the journey, how much I’ve been involved with or around data from the one company was called UCC Net, and they look basically standardized barcode documents and in the communication, the synchronization of all that information; GTINs, etc, etc. So data. Obviously (continued) Nielsen, the first time you listen the second time, demographic data, firmographic data, personnel, people data product, data goes on and on.
SHANNON: Yeah, yeah.
13:51
(continued) So then, where do you go from there to a to your current job, Ontotext?
DOUG: So when from Nielsen, they went through a layoff series, I mean, I think it lasted through the fifth one, I got let go there.
14:03
(continued) Enjoyed (not at all) being unemployed for a year and a half, which I do not recommend anybody.
14:09
(continued) Took a job with a supply chain company, again, in sales. Based in Chicago. I was there maybe three months before me constantly asking about marketing needs, you know, do we do this? Do we do this? We thought about this? And they basically said, “Okay, you’re not being a sales guy anymore.” So it’s like six months. So they made me the director of marketing.
14:28
(continued) They had a marketing person, but they’re mainly just very one event focused thing. So, got put on as a director marketing, sort of built out a marketing team; it was a small community of like four or five people on the marketing team, and just continued to build that out and grew, you know, again, it was a company based in Brazil, so I got to go to Brazil for work, which is really very cool.
14:50
(continued) Especially since my hobby is Brazilian jujitsu, so I’ve been doing that for almost 15 and a half, 16 years.
SHANNON: Wow!
14:57
(continued) That company, they did a nice merger,
15:00
(continued) they grew, but then they started to cut back based on some of the leadership in Brazil making some changes. I was unemployed for a little bit then I went over to JDA, the supply largest supply chain company now called Blue Yonder,
15:11
(continued) came on there as a product marketing director, which I loved, because I’ve been doing product marketing in some forms or fashion over the last couple years. And I think it was at JDA, where I really
15:25
(continued) it really came into my own being.I came up with a concept that hadn’t been used before, it was a supply I called the supply chain grid, and it got adopted throughout the company, I saw them in mainstay, it was pretty cool to be a product marketing person and having this impact on a global organization like that.
15:44
(continued) You know, I got to do a lot of fun things and learned a lot were some really good and really smart people, I still stay in touch with a couple of them.
15:53
(continued) That I went t– that was I was at a point where my boss had left, and I wanted to find that was kind of grow, but I was kind of stuck at the director level, and I really wanted to take a VP title as my next segment. And so I changed jobs for a company that was very interesting. Got a VP law job there, and four to five weeks in, I went, “I’m in the wrong company.”
SHANNON: Ugh. Yeah.
16:15
(continued) Yeah, it was a–it didn’t take long before my yay VP. Ugh.
16:22
(continued) And now I’m working hard, but again, it was about it was related data, it was about exchanging transportation data and the signals and everything from ocean vessels to trucks to shipment; it was a fascinating, fascinating coming, they’re doing–they’re doing, they do great things, just, we’ll leave the rest of it out.
16:39
So I was–ended up being recruited by the guy who I used to work for when I was at JDA to go work for a massive data management company. Hey, we’re back. We’re even deeper in the data now. So I worked in master data management for about four years, as–started out as VP solutions, strategy–and basically, in short, basically VP of Product and Industry Marketing.
17:00
We had the change of title for a variety of reasons but ran a team there, did a lot of thought leadership, a lot of presentations, a couple of podcasts before we even had DATAVERSITY.
17:12
I don’t know if you know, Scott, the data whisperer, Scott Taylor?
17:17
(continued) I’ve known Scott since the TD Lynx days when I was back at Nielsen, so we connected and we continue to stay, stay connected. I got to have a lot of really cool experiences, I learned so much when I was there to expand my, my marketing tactics, vision, strategy, how to do things differently, better, faster. So it was, it was–
17:41
(continued) it was a great experience with great people, learned a lot more about data management, I, you know, going back to me being in second grade. And looking in, I learned a ton. So it was a, it was a good, a good process, most of it.
17:55
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18:22
SHANNON: Nice, nice. And then and now you are CMO.
DOUGH: Yep. Now I’m CMO. And
18:28
(continued) they went through again, couple, couple of cuts, cuts based on marketing to cut budgets across thing. But fortunately, I had a good introduction into the recruiting process was going on for this, this job, you know, went through seven or eight people the part of the process and either they lost their mind or they found the right candidate. I’m not sure but yeah, so join–joined out the text in early November of last year.
SHANNON:Congratulations.
DOUG: Thank you. It’s been pretty cool.
SHANNON: That’s awesome. I love your story. It’s one full of triumphs and challenges that– congrats on, on, yeah, persevering and really just turning it into success. That’s amazing.
DOUG: What’s helped is having a lot of good leaders and mentors. And you know, if I gave anybody any advice as they go through their career journey is find a–or, a mentor or more mentors, because even the mentors in might bug you, you annoy you and make you really like, “Oh, why am I”–they make you think differently and learn differently and respond differently. I would not be where I am right now without some very good leaders behind me.
SHANNON: That’s some really great advice. And let’s come back to that here and that in a minute.
19:42
(continued) So Ontotext. I know you’ve worked with data, especially after working with an MDM company and going through that. So what is your definition of data?
19:58
DOUG: Oh, that’s a good one. I’ve used an example before the
20:00
(continued) that used to drive some of my colleagues nuts, because I used it a lot. But it’s the difference in my mind between “digitization” and “digitalization.”
20:08
DOUG: Okay, so I’ve got I got my phone. So I take a picture of me, okay? I’ve now created an item of data.
20:18
(continued): So I’ve just I’ve got, you know, it’s an image of me, so it’s unstructured data. But it’s data, you know.
20:25
if I want to–so I’ve now, I’ve now have digitized me as a data point. But digital data, digital by itself does nothing. If I then send that picture up to Google Photos, as an example, now I can potentially digitalize that because, you know, it can scan me (indecipherable) here, the connection here, and maybe you look like this person, or you get added to Google search index; you know all–I’ve now digitalized my data into something that is being used as a–as an activity versus just a, hey, it’s a great selfie.
21:02
(continued) That’s one way to look at data. It’s, it’s infirm–it’s not information, sorry. Information is different.
21:08
(continued) Data is just a piece of something that we then have to apply context, interpretation,, you know, information, a question a need…
21:21
(continued) It’s just picture of me, it’s just a picture. It’s nothing until somebody goes, Hey, we had a profile pic of Doug for, or let’s do a face-matching game, and see what–you know, then it becomes useful.
21:33
SHANNON: Yeah. I love that. I love that definition. So, and tell me, especially in marketing, I assume you use a lot of data in your daily job. How do you–
DOUG: I rely on people who are really good at using and giving me data. Yes, because–
21:48
(continued) It’s ironic, you know, I’m the guy who’s been around data for years. I’m not a heavy analytics person. I’m, I’m very good at messaging and positioning and spotting patterns and things that don’t make sense as part of data. But I’m not a data analytics person. I’ve got a fantastic marketing director who lives for understanding Google Analytics and the details as–not just looking at it and saying, “Hey, here’s the we should change here. Because of this.” We do the same thing with our ABM campaigns, make sure we’re analyzing data properly, get the right results…
22:22
(continued) I probably do use a lot more data in my thinking that I, that I like to acknowledge because I like to, really like realize, reading is data; reading a sentence and learning about Data Mesh or Data Fabric, or knowledge graphs, or semantic technology, or you fill in the blank, is reading, so I’m bringing data in, in order for me to do things whether it’s messaging, positioning, giving guidance, giving a vision, you know, suggesting changes to our product, demos. So it’s so you’re making me think, I like this.
22:55
SHANNON: I love it too. I love that you talk about reading cuz that hasn’t been brought up before and that you’re very, that’s very true. You’re, you’re consuming data as you’re learning anything.
23:07
DOUG: I give my wife a lot of credit cuz one day, and that makes this a transition here, one day a week, she’s listening me talking my job for ad nauseam
23:15
(continued) and I was trying to explain the difference between MDM and knowledge graphs, because she understands the pieces I talk about, and she said, “So MDM is like the letters of the alphabet, and a knowledge graph is like a sentence.” Like, I got really quiet in the car for a while, and she was like, “Did I get it wrong?” I’m like, “No, that’s really good.” I kind of added to that, it was like–it’s like they create the sentence, because now it adds context and meaning to the letters.
SHANNON: Right.
DOUG: But that truly is how you look at data, is you just start off with something, and then it should go from that something into information, and then have information structured in a way that now you can get some insights out of or even just wisdom, and say “Now I learned something new.” So I thought it was a I actually used it on my briefing documents for an event, and people liked it, so it was good,
SHANNON: That is very good. So–
24:03
(continued) having that experience with data, and so, do you see the importance of data management and the number of jobs working with data increasing or decreasing over the next 10 years, and why?
24:13
10’s a hard one, because of all the changes just in the last nine months that have people freaked out about chat GPT and generative AI and LLMs
24:22
(continued) That said, I can’t see the jobs going down, because people who understand how to get to the data, how to interpret the data, how to connect the data; be like data architects, data engineers..
24:40
(continued) But think also data storytellers, the people who can then make sense of the data you have people are really, really good at bringing it all together, but they can’t tell you what to do with it as a result of. And so people who can take that analytic brain, the what if and to tell the story about well, this data means you know, here’s some suggestions, here’s some guidance
25:00
(continued) And then also I think data creatives, I’m not sure that’s the right term, but people can look at what comes out of data and apply an interpretation to that, that you and I might not think about because we think like this, and the very people who are very creative and data-centric, what if you turn the data like, then, you know, I have a vision in my head of like, when Tony Stark and Iron Man has this big visual thing he’s rotating around…
25:28
(continued) But that’s–
25:30
(continued) That’s how I approach a lot of problems I approach, I look at–I deal with is, okay. Well, if I look at it from the left-hand side, and underneath a bit, and can I see things a little more clearly? Now I can’t do that with data all the time but there are people who have that ability to truly connect the dots and make sense of it. So long answer I don’t–I think somebody who’s got an interest in a data career, their biggest challenge is which part?
25:57
SHANNON: So, so, so tell me about that. So, so what advice, then, what would you give to people looking to in a data career? How do they find which part?
26:08
Yeah, I’m a huge fan of internships, you know, having come from the career counseling world for, you know, years ago. Internships, you know, ride-alongs; those kinds of things are very helpful, a ton of resources on the internet, but everything from watching webinars, just to get a sense of no, that doesn’t sound like me, that doesn’t sound interesting.
26:29
(continued) Changing a mindset that not every job sits behind the desk for eight hours a day.
26:35
(continued) That’s, I guess, a mindset thing. Well, you know, just you just poking around; learning, asking people questions, paying attention to podcasts like you’re putting together to say, “Oh, there’s, there’s a job I didn’t even know existed!” to make that hop back. That’s how I got into project management. I was back at my university job, they needed to install a whole new computer lab, and I was supposed–I was taking over the job, and they said, well, making a contract with it was a contract job for the summer. You’re the project manager for blah blah blah…project manager? That sounds like what I like to do! But I never knew there was a job or a title like that, like, Yeah! Cool!
27:13
SHANNON: That’s very–you mentioned before getting mentors.
DOUG: Yeah.
SHANNON: How have you found your mentors, in–throughout your career?
DOUG That’s another good question.
27:22
(continued) I think I’ve been a little fortunate in that. I’ve..
27:26
(continued) worked–I’ve had people that I’ve worked for and with that have been very sharp, nd for me, some of it’s just come down to is this person in the right feel for what I need to try to learn, where I need to challenge myself? Somebody I will trust to poke at my holes? In other words, Doug, Doug doesn’t know this stuff yet, and, you know, hey, Doug, you’re you need to add these–
27:48
(continued) people you trust, who are not just smart, but good at helping you to become smarter. And that’s, that’s a hard one to easily go, oh, yeah, is that in the phonebook?
28:01
(continued) But I think, you know, even just asking people,”Hey, I’m looking to help me, you know, find somebody who can make me better, smarter at ABM. I mean, I’m to them, I would pick my world, understand how to do you know, SQL Joins more effectively? Or who’s been through this? You know, and start from the beginning, just asking questions, having that bit of boldness that I’m trying to and you know, positioning that I’m trying to better myself as a, as a playing, and you’ve been a successful career and a bit of butter up, help me to understand things. I think people are generally, are always–like, like to help.
28:36
SHANNON: Yeah, yeah. That’s amazing. I love that. I love that. And I love that you
28:44
(continued) aren’t taking this journey by yourself. You’ve had help along the way. Yeah.
28:50
(continued) I don’t think anyone can make it on their own.
DOUG: I completely agree. That’s one of the–one of the harder points when you get to being a C-level, is that it’s a little harder to get mentors at that level. Not at that level. I’m not saying that right. But you know, when you’re a VP, there’s always somebody above you as CMO, I mean, I gotta say, I’ve got a CEO I can talk to, but he’s got, you know, he’s got the business he’s running. So I’m actually trying to get back in touch with my–my former CMO, because he and I always played well together.
29:20
(continued) Just to say, “Here’s what I’m thinking about doing, what do you think?”. “No, you’re stupid, don’t do this…and go on. But, you know, we’ve always been good about bouncing ideas off of each other. So yeah, that’s again, I need to be vulnerable, and say I’m not always sure what I’m doing.
29:36
SHANNON: I love that. That’s great. And…
29:41
(continued) So and you seem to have followed your passion, like, you know, initially going into counseling, because that was a good fit for you, you know, and following passion of–of what’s next and really finding something that works for you. Finding a company that didn’t work for you and saying, “Okay, I need to move.”
29:58
(continued) So yeah, that’s
30:00
(continued) that’s really amazing. Any other advice you give to people getting into a career in Data Management?
30:07
DOUG: Yeah, I just I learned–
30:10
(continued) taking the time to learn more. And the reason I really emphasize that is, again, when I was in the MDM company, we did data management. And I’ve gone to three or four conferences just this year who are focusing on data management. Well, it’s a data analytics conference. It’s data management. And so I try to look at the world from how I just walked into it. So I just walked into this conference, and I know I need a data management solution of some kind. That’s all I know. And you got 90 vendors saying, “Oh, you’re data management.”
30:37
DATAVERSITY does data management, because you’re managing–helping to break down what is it that I’m most interested in? And as you said earlier, are passionate about, what does that? What does that according to me. Is it you know, hands-on coding, is it interpretation?
30:53
(continued) You know, taking the time to learn.
30:55
SHANNON: Absolutely. And do you find that you are using all your experiences in your current role, including your counseling?
DOUG: Yes, definitely. I can there’s, there’s times that you’re looking at–by the way, I’m getting lightning here. So I’m hoping I don’t lose power, that would really be bad…
31:13
(continued) Yeah, I think I definitely think so. And that’s one of the things when I got out of counseling into the business, I was asked myself, the question is this, how is this going to translate? And it didn’t take more than I think, a couple of years when I really, really realized that it’s the same thing. How are you today? What are you here to do? How can I help you fix your problems, the challenges, solutions, plug it in, you know, what do you think of the challenges do you and again, getting people to talk and articulate themselves
31:37
(continued) and then getting to here to identify a plan in order to solve that. The only thing I do look back that I find is amusing, is you know, growing up, I was the kid my mom said you need to enunciate, you need to slow down, you just start–stop mumbling. And now from our last eight years of jobs, I’ve been being the guy who’s out there talking.
31:58
(continued) Up on stage presenting, I’m doing podcasts. I’m the mumbler.
SHANNON: Oh, no, you’ve been very well-spoken.
DOUG: Practice, I guess.
SHANNON: Indeed. Well, Doug, this has been great. So but I would be remiss if I didn’t ask if how people, if people were curious about Ontotext and, and in obtaining a knowledge graph, what how would they get ahold of Ontotext?
DOUG: The there’s several ways. I always, I always suggest our LinkedIn, you know, when LinkedIn location, you know, just Ontotext on the LinkedIn, because we post a lot of informational pieces. There are case studies conversations, again, as part of education, depending on what we’re looking–just helps them understand what does that particular piece of the world; not just knowledge, graphs with semantic technology, et cetera. Obviously, our website, you know, Ontotext dot com. I’m on LinkedIn, feel free to reach out to me and just ask a question, happy to help out.
32:48
(continued) It’s just, it’s all about learning.
32:51
SHANNON: I love it. Thank you so much, and we’ll get those links from you and get it posted to the podcast page as well. So, Doug, I really enjoyed this conversation. I really love your journey. So congratulations on, on where you are in the journey you’ve taken.
DOUG: Thanks for the forum to share it. There’s there’s like so there’s days I just sit here in amazement going, “Really? Cool.”
33:16
SHANNON: I understand that very much! (Laughs)
33:19
(continued) So Well, thank you again, so much. And to all of our listeners out there: if you’d like to keep up-to-date in the latest in podcasts and in the latest in Data Management Education, you may go to DATAVERSITY dot net forward slash subscribe. Until next time!
33:37
(Outro start) Thank you for listening to DATAVERSITY Talks: a podcast brought to you by DATAVERSITY! Subscribe to our newsletter for podcasts updates and information about our free educational webinars at DATAVERSITY dot net forward slash subscribe. (Outro End)